Category: Thales

Thales Pay Deal

Dear ALL


Following lengthy talks with the Company, the RMT and Thales have finally reached agreement on pay and we understand that the back pay & increase will be paid in the next available pay run.


During the talks, we carried out a referendum among our members that showed a majority to accept the final pay offer by a small majority of approximately 55% to 45%.


We therefore went back to management and spent further efforts into tightening up the wording for the Inflation Protection element of the pay offer.


Our members will be aware that these talks have gone on far too long. However, given that the initial Thales offer was zero percent, it has taken many months of talks to achieve a good pay offer given the relative position that we started the talks in.


Our members will also receive a further 2% Pay increase for 2018 from January and we would like to thank them for their patience and support that they have given us over this period.



Thales Pay Offer 2017, 2018, 2019

Thales Pay Offer

Dear ALL,


The below offer is for LR1-7 Job Families 7 & 10 plus site engineers ONLY.  Please note that I still have to come up with a form of words regarding CPI and this is not a measure that the RMT accepts for the inflation rate as we use the RPI measure. However, that is not substantive to the overall agreement and is a tidying up exercise.


I would therefore be grateful if you could feed back to myself or reps asap regards this offer.


This is the maximum that can be achieved through negotiation and Thales have made it clear that this is the most that they can afford.


Therefore, should this offer not meet your aspirations then further rejection would mean the RMT undertaking a ballot of our members and any associated action that our members wished for. So please give honest feedback, because you’re either happy with the offer or you are willing to potentially take strike action to further push your pay claim


The offer:


Thales have confirmed the ebit for 2017 will be paid, so the offer is in summary:


2017 1.8%

2018 2%

2% plus 0.5% ebit related



Year Base % Ebit Related % Total% Additional offer
2017 1.5% 0.3%* 1.8% Increased base offer by 0.3% ,

0.3% Ebit related paid in Jan 18 onto base salary*

2018 2% 2% “Inflation Protection”**

Base % increased to reflect Guaranteed Ebit component

2019 2% 0.5%*** 2.5% “Inflation Protection”**

Base component increased to 2%


* 0.3% increase to base salary – based on delivery of 2017 EBIT targets (confirmed). To be paid in January 2018 and backdated to 1 January 2017. EBIT related payments are in addition to any gain share payment.

** Inflation Protection – Base % will be reviewed subject to significant movement in CPI index as previously described

*** 0.5% increase to base salary – following delivery of 2019 EBIT targets.  To be paid in January 2020 and backdated to 1 January 2019.  EBIT related payments are in addition to any gain share payment.

Thales revised Pay Offer

Thales have made a revised pay offer for their LR 1-7 staff in job families 7 & 10 plus site engineers.


The offer is below:


Year 1 – 1.2%

Year 2 – 1.5% +0.5%*

Year 3 – 1.7% +0.8%*


*Subject to meeting the in year MYB EBIT target.


The issue is now being discussed with our reps to decide the next way forward, however, we remain in dispute with the company at this time.


This matter needs to be brought to a head and we remain committed to further talks and discussions around Pay.



Dispute notice (headed) 7.8.17

Thales Proposal to attack Pension Payments

The RMT have received a proposal from Thales UK to amend the future pension increases for members of  legacy final salary pension schemes (such as Thomson Retirement Benefit Scheme, Thales Optronics Pension Scheme and Racal Group Pension Scheme) and those in the Thales UK Pension Scheme (TUPs) ONLY. This proposal will see future payments from these defined benefit schemes being index linked to the CPI figure rather than the RPI figure which is usually higher.

This proposal would potentially see members having to survive on lower pensions than they would have done under the old scheme rules.

Also worrying, the proposal, though not clear, seem to infer that Thales are going to court and we can only assume that this is to attempt to rewrite the Pension Rules (in effect the promise made to its members) to change the indexation criteria to RPI.

To this end, the RMT have demanded full talks on this matter and will be opposing these changes until this has occurred. Furthermore, should Thales win this matter in court then the RMT will also be referring this matter to our solicitors and will not hesitate to challenge any ruling legally or industrially if necessary. We will keep our members informed of developments

Thales RSS ALP & A-Z Agreed

The RMT have now formally accepted the below agreement for Thales Rail Signals LR 1-7 Grades to resolve the long standing issue of annual leave pay and equalise conditions with Thales DTS Section.

We congratulate our members on their steadfast determination to achieve justice



Oct 2016 Thales Company Council Report

October 2016: Thales Company Council Update

Dear Colleague

Your company council representatives, DTS Ronnie Fardell and RSS, Ed Hardy and myself met with Senior Thales Management and HR for our regular quarterly meetings. The following was discussed:

Business Update

Thales gave us an update on how their business is going. There were general areas of concern and certain part of the business were doing well. They certainly highlighted areas where action on costs were needed and a recovery plan was under development.

They also stated that the PDD process was now concluded and Thales Training were being contacted and then formal individual plans would be evolved. We also asked if there was any impacts on Thales with regards to the Enterprise Act and they were going to come back to us with details.

2016 Pay

As you may be aware, the RMT have still not accepted the 2016 Pay offer and have indeed rejected the 1.7% offer that has been implemented and further discussions have taken place.

In DTS, this has delivered an improved offer that deals with local issues surrounding the overtime rate and outstanding monies that are owed and we believe that pending a formal letter from the company that we will be in a position to fully discuss this with our reps and members and if agreeable recommend acceptance to our National Executive.

In RSS, we have still not progressed past the initial position in terms of reaching agreement. We have asked for our members to be included into the DTS A-Z Terms and conditions and your reps and management are reviewing that document over the next week. We have also stated that we want the Annual Leave Back Pay issue resolved once and for all and we are looking for two years back pay for those affected from when the correct annual pay was implemented in mid-2013.

They should be getting back us very shortly on that matter.

Changing Rosters in RSS (LT Contract)

A proposal has been sent from management looking for volunteers to work Sunday to Thursday. Any roster change is contentious, sometimes for those changing and sometimes for those left behind. Impacts are often subtle such as lose of overtime and work life balance. You union have agreed to formal meetings in the next two weeks to explore the proposal and report this back to our members.

2017 Pay

We notified Thales that we intended to lodge next year’s pay claim in the next few months. Whilst we note their financial forecast, we will lodge a pay claim that we believe is fair to our members that have helped the company achieve in the past and also have won contracts such as 4LM which have the potential to be extremely profitable. We will keep you informed of any developments.



2016 Thales Pay LR1-7

Despite productive talks with Senior Management and the RMT, we was disappointed that no progress was made. A 1.7% Pay Offer has been made and implemented which is below the aspirations of our members. We therefore asked that a number of other issues be taken into account so that the total package might be one that we could recommend to our members for acceptance. However, as can be read in the below letter, there was no progess and we are now in dispute with the company.

I will therefore be writing a report to the RMT National Executive Committee asking them to ballot all our members across Thales UK. In the meantime can everyone please make sure that their membership details are correct in terms of grade title and workplace

The following letter was sent to Thales DTS & RSS


Paul Jackson,

Branch Secretary RMT,

07810 643 681


Vicki Turner

Human Resources Director,


31st May 2016


2016 Collective Pay Claim RMT Response


Further to your letter dated 25th May 2016, I believe it is necessary to clarify our members’ position regarding pay.

We have not agreed anything and we have no agreed way forward, we have reiterated that we wished to work together to conclude a fair and reasonable settlement for our members.


Pay Negotiations:

For clarity, we have rejected the 1.7% offer several times both verbally and in writing and I do not believe that there can be any confusion or misinterpretation of this matter. We have stated that we would work with you regarding the ‘total package’, so please understand that this is not the same as acceptance.

We note that every year, from a Thales UK perspective, is a challenging year when it comes to talking about pay. However, it is less challenging when your company is making self congratulatory PR videos etc saying how well the company is doing. So can we please stop the semantics, your company is succeeding through the efforts of our members and have seen the benefits of changes and streamlining deliver through our talks. The RMT shared our concerns regarding the Gainshare Scheme when it was initially described, was that the company would use this to try to move to a bonus culture rather than a general pay rise. The continual mentioning of this bonus does nothing to change our view on that matter.



You asked us to delay meeting for a month regarding pay. We stated very clearly that we wanted this matter dealt with. However, your company ignored this request and continued on a path to impose the pay increase. It is therefore very poor industrial relations to then use an excuse that you did not want our members to wait when the delay was at your own request.


New Issues:

This is quite strange that you have referred to issues that in some cases stretch back to 2012 as new. They are not in any format not known or new to Thales. These are an attempt to resolve the yearly Pay Claim and need to be seen in that light and not issues that need to be kicked into the long grass. We want them resolved and then included within agreement between your company and our union at Company Level. To assist I will describe these issues and potential resolutions in summary.

  1. Thales RSS ALP: This has taken approximately 60 months and is always being looked at. This is not an issue of Thales UK perspective. This is an issue of what is right. Our members rightly gave the company the opportunity to correct their annual leave pay. Whilst this was eventually done, these members should not be disadvantaged for not taking this matter straight to an Employment Tribunal. Though I could seek legal opinion on taking this matter to County Court if you wish? At the end of the day our members want the money that they feel they are owed. We can look at agreeing collectively a level of compensation, either preferably financial or potentially through time in lieu.
  1. The Implementation of the A-Z in DTS was not dependent on all staff being under Red Book terms and conditions as indeed the vast majority were not. I find it inflammatory to reject a proposal given that you stated at our meeting that you understood that RSS was already covered by these terms. It is impossible not to therefore see this in the context of you removing terms now that you’ve discovered that were not covered by the agreement.
  1. We understand the Policy and as stated several times, we are looking at ways to resolve a dispute and not to have an in depth discussion of existing terms and conditions. The suggestion is that on occasion staff will have a few hours left of their leave and that they should have the opportunity to take some quality time away from work through rounding that time upwards.
  1. Regarding rostering and training allowances on RSS, whilst we are happy for talks to be concluded in the best forum that does not and cannot detract from the need to reach agreement at Company Level. So I would highly recommend getting that work stream completed.
  1. These are fine words and indeed if the actions matched these sentiments then I suggest we would not have mentioned them. I suspect it would be easy to rewrite this paragraph and reach an agreement around these terms. However, I suspect that it is the fact that your sentiments do not mirror practice that would cause issue so if we can match your sentiment to reality then we can move forward on this matter.
  1. Regards the overpayment, all that was stated in march is that you was going to review the matter. However, we do thank you for this move but we still do not have any evidence or details to weigh its significance as part of the broader pay discussions. I am aware of the future proofing work that is being done and this should be concluded and incorporated into an agreement at Company level.
  1. There is a difference between tracking of vehicles and spying on staff and we are trying to make sure that the former prevails.


I have stated in the past that we are open to multi-year deals and there are many examples where we have concluded them with other companies. We are happy to discuss this matter further.

Regards the matter of dispute resolution. There is not one for RSS and the offer with regards for the DTS section was not taken forward. By imposition that route has now ended.

That is not to say that we do not wish to reach agreement or act in a collaborative manner and we are open to further talks at your convenience.


Yours Sincerely,

Paul Jackson


Thales Pay Rise LR1 -7 2016

This is a to inform you of the latest situation regarding your pay and a response to the Bulletin issued today by Thales stating that they are imposing this years pay deal despite no agreement being reached.

We have been in protracted talks over pay since the New Year. However, the reality is that there has been very few meetings on this matter and in my view the company have prevaricated long enough. We reached a final point about a month ago, when the company made an offer of 1.7% which following discussions with the reps, we rejected it. Despite this we also asked for further talks on other issues to see if we could negotiate a more acceptable package for our members. (see email section below sent to Thales HR)

I confirm that we reject the 1.7% however we are willing to discuss further around the entire package on offer.

To enable this we need some further Information please:
1. Details of the Management Team payrise believed to be 8%
2. Details of other payments within Thales.

We also wish to further discuss the below:
1. Full settlement of the ALP and backpay
2. Implementing the A-Z in RSS
3. Remuneration for Rosters in RSS
4. Training and loss of Night Rate
5. Payment for people doing the SPC role (as per Field Engineers)
6.  Any hours left at the end of the year for annual leave rounded up to a full shift
7. An end to the Tracking of people (Veludu Connect)
8. Internal staff having priority for Training over Contract Labour)
9.  Full details of the alleged debt issue in DTS
10.  Retention and recognition of overtime rate for night staff to include night rate enhancement across our bargaining unit

Thales have not fully replied, but did state they could not come back to us on some issues until the end of May. Whilst this is not ideal as we have a meeting arranged for the 24th, then it was acceptable to wait. However, we now find that Thales have imposed the pay rise on our members arguing they did not want to ‘delay’ this benefit to its staff. This clearly is not in the spirit of them asking to delay a response to the end of May and then saying that they are hugely concerned about the delay.

The RMT have only one reply to what can only be seen as a breakdown in Industrial Relations and that is to tell the company that we are in dispute. Our reps are looking at the membership list and we will be preparing a ballot matrix as per legal requirements so that if there is no positive outcome in the talks next week, then we will be asking the RMT National Executive to ballot our members for Strike action and Action short of Strike.

Thales Pay Update

Following talks with Thales regarding the RMT pay claim for 2016, we have received the below reply:


RMT Pay Claim Response


This is response to the below claim:


2016 Pay Claim – Thales


ALL RMT union reps are released on Friday 19th February to discuss this matter so please feedback to them your views


Text of Thales Pay offer below:

Private & Confidential

Mr Paul Jackson

National Union of Rail, Maritime and Transport Workers

39 Charlton Street



16th February 2016

Dear Paul,

RMT 2016 Collective Pay Claim Response

I am writing to you following our meeting of the 10th February 2016 and following receipt of the pay claim you have proposed for those within the collective agreement.

As I discussed at our meeting, 2015 was a challenging year for GTS UK and we did not meet our financial targets. Albeit the business has seen success in securing the 4LM programme with London Underground, we continue to focus on meeting our financial targets consistently and growing the end of year EBIT year on year. It is essential for us that we are competitive within bids and that we attract and retain critical skills and capabilities. A business that is affordable and sustainable is key in achieving this. It is also critical that we continue to grow our Mainline Rail business and continue the development of the ICS business across the UK. This will lead to a more sustainable environment for all our employees.

With reference to your proposals, as discussed several were concluded during discussions in 2012 following the alignment of terms and conditions programme.

During our meeting we had a lengthy discussion around compensation and can confirm that we will review anyone who is below their benchmark as a matter of priority. As discussed we have collectively reviewed our apprentices to ensure they are rewarded competitively. I can also confirm that we regularly benchmark our salaries externally and proactively address anomalies within the business.  Taking the climate of GTS UK into account and the affordability of the business, I am proposing a collective increase of 1.4%. Having reviewed the feasibility of a flat rate increase per employee I am proposing that we are consistent with the rest of Thales UK and continue with a percentage increase proposal.  I understand that you will need to position your response with your members but would like to remind you that we are also working to the Thales UK timescales to conclude the salary review campaign for 2016 by Friday 19th February.

Lastly, it was mentioned during our meeting that travel expenses incurred by RMT representatives to attend meetings was to date not claimable. Going forward, I can confirm that business related travel expenses to attend RMT meetings can be claimed.

Yours sincerely,

Vicki Turner

Human Resources Director